Podcast Interview on Geographic Transitions: Secrets and Strategies
ポッドキャストインタビュー: 地理的変遷に関する秘訣と行動計画

Tune in to my podcast interview with Linda Rossetti on Destination Unknown: a field guide! Our conversation is available in the 12-minute episode titled “Geographic Transitions: Secrets and Strategies.”

リンダ・ロセッティさんとのポッドキャストインタビューをDestination Unknown：a field guideでアップロードしました！私たちの12分のエピソードは、「地理的変遷：秘訣と行動計画」について話しましたので、是非お聞きくださいネ～！

URL: https://destinationunknownafieldguide.libsyn.com/website/geographic-transitions-secrets-and-strategies

I first met Linda Rosetti when I arrived at Harvard University as a fresh-eyed graduate student. As my international host, she was the first to welcome me with thoughtful recommendations on nearby places to explore down to detailing the nitty-gritty logistics of moving into my new home in Cambridge, MA.

Our first in-person meeting was at a potluck event. At first, I was very nervous to meet Linda and her daughter. My heart fluttered: What if they did not like me? What would we talk about? What if I did not live up to their expectations? What if we did not get along?

Linda Rossetti （リンダ・ロゼッティ）さんに初めて会ったのは、
ハーバード大学院に入学したばかりの時です。
私のインターナショナルホストとして、
彼女は私を歓迎してくれた最初の人です。
私がマサチューセッツ州ケンブリッジ市にある新しい家に引っ越す時、
生活がしやすいようにと近所にある色々な設備を教えてくださり、
引っ越しに必要な骨の折れる様々なことを詳しく調べてくださいました。

Photo with Linda and her daughter in 2013. ２０１３年のリンダさんと娘さんとの写真。

However, Linda and her daughter were very friendly and instantly made me feel comfortable. They later invited me to their house for Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, I had a conflict of schedule and to this day I regret not joining in on their family festivity!

しかし、リンダさんと娘さんはとてもフレンドリーで、
すぐに私は打ち解けることができました。
彼女たちは後で、私を感謝祭パーティのために家に招待してくれました。
残念ながら、私はスケジュールの都合で、
今日まで彼らの家族のディナーパーティに参加できなかったことを後悔しています！>.<;

Linda and I met a few other times during my years at Harvard. Every time we met, she would share about her work on transition and its impact on individuals and organizations, with a focus on the experiences of women. She would listen to my concerns and insightfully advise me on how to turn times of uncertainty into opportunities to build resiliency and redefine success. I had no idea at that time how much her words would be like seeds planted inside me, slowly incubating and taking hold at the necessary times when I was facing my own challenges, whether personal or career-related. I realized later, that the thing with our words to others, is that they tend to become thoughts and then actions. So, it is important we observe them and choose them wisely. As we disperse more “seeds” around the world, many will take root in the lives of others.

私はハーバード大学院在学中の数年間、リンダさんと何回も会いました。
私たちが会う時は、彼女は、女性の経験に焦点を当てながら、
「transition」に関して、仕事、個人や組織等の環境変化の影響について話してくれました。

リンダさんは私の関心事に耳を傾け、
どのようにして不確実性の時代を乗り越えて回復させるチャンスに変えるか、
成功の再定義について詳しく心が温まるアドバイスをしてくれました。

その時は、私自身もキャリアがなく、
彼女の言葉がまだよく理解できませんでした。
現在は、自分の「transition」に挑戦し、
直面しているので、事あるごとにリンダさんのアドバイスを噛みしめています。

他の人への私たちのアドバイスや言葉が、
後々に、その人達の思考の元になり、
行動になる可能性があります。
したがって、言葉を選び、それを賢明に選択することが重要です。
世界中の人に「良き言葉」や「良きアドバイス」を伝えることは、
多くの人の心の種になって育っていくでしょう。

5 years, 3 countries, and several job industry transitions later, Linda and I reconnected.

5年後、そして3か国に渡る就職先への移行後、リンダさんと私は再び繋がりました。

Linda’s podcast, Destination Unknown: a field guide, explores the variety of challenging life transitions that many of us encounter and how to navigate them successfully. Our conversation is available in the 12-minute episode titled “Geographic Transitions: Secrets and Strategies.”

Lindaのポッドキャスト、「Destination Unknown: a field guide」　（目的地不明：フィールドガイド）では、
私たちの多くが人生に挑戦して遭遇する様々な変化と、
それらをうまくナビゲートする方法を探ります。
12分のエピソード「Geographic Transitions: Secrets and Strategies」（地理的変遷：秘訣と行動計画）で
それらについての私たちの会話を聞くことができます。

If you are able to make the time, do tune in!

Some highlights and a full transcript of the podcast interview can be found below, for those who prefer reading. However, I would very much appreciate it if you could spare the time to listen to the audio!

As always, I would be happy to hear from you and your feedback.

時間に余裕があれば、お聞きください！

ポッドキャストインタビューの主要部分と完全なトランスクリプト(英語版のみ)は、下記を参照してください。
読書好きな人が時間を割いて音声を聞いてくだされば嬉しいです。

いつものように、ご意見をお聞かせください。

Some Highlights:

いくつかの主要部分：

“If I look back now, I had definitely underestimated how difficult it would be to live and work in a country where you have no knowledge of the language or the culture. When I actually arrived on the ground, everything from just grocery shopping to finding an apartment was really difficult.”

「今振り返ってみると、言語や文化を知らない国で生活し、働くのがどれほど難しいかを、私はあまり問題視していませんでした。実際にその地で生活を始めた時、食料品の買い物だけでなく、アパートを見つける等々、すべてが本当に大変でした。」 

“The biggest thing I faced was Asian female stereotypes… [sometimes] it was so entrenched in the cultural views of gender-defining roles.”

「私が直面した最大の障害は、アジアの女性の固定観念でした… [時々]それは性別についての役割における文化的な考え方が非常に強く根付いていました。」 

“On the surface, people look at your history or your Instagram persona and think that everything worked out so well for you, but when you are really in that moment, many days you wake up and have no energy to fight it anymore. I realized that I was beginning to internalize it, to believe that I was not good enough or adding much value.”

「表面的には、人々はあなたの過去やInstagramに載った外見的なあなたを見て、すべてがうまくいっていると思うでしょう。ですが、それはあなたがその瞬間にいる時のことで、日常の中では、憂鬱な日々もあり、元気に生活する気力が無い時もあります。 私はそれが内面化し始めていることに気づきました。自分の気力が無くなり、自分の人生に価値がないと思い始めてしまいました。」 

“For me, I think it was a stroke of luck but what I did was I started reaching out to people, and how I could help other people… through the process of sharing my experiences and insights and seeing their success… that really helped me also realize the value of my own experiences. By teaching them, they really taught me so much more in return.”  

「私にとって、それは運命の一撃だったと思います。その後、私がしたことは、どうやって他の人々を支援できるかと、色々な人に接触し始めました。 私の経験と洞察を共有し、私は本当に自分自身の経験が価値があるものと実感しました。彼らに私の経験を伝えることで、私は彼らからもっと学ばせていただいています。」 

“Whenever you move to a different country, it is really easy to feel like a fish out of water. And then, you start self-isolating… and feeling really alone. In many ways, after you do it a few times, you become aware that you need to break away from this comfort zone that is confining you… But it still takes time, you can’t rush it… [In my opinion], it takes about 6 months to adjust to moving to a new environment.”

「あなたがほかの国に引っ越すときはいつも、陸に上がった魚のように感じやすいものです。そして、あなたは孤立していき…　本当に孤独を感じます。 多くの点で、似たような経験を何回か行った後、あなたはあなたの快適ゾーンの中にいるようになりますが、色々なチャレンジをするためにはこの快適ゾーンの枠を壊す必要があることに気づきます…　しかし、それには少し時間がかかり、速く壊したくても急にはできません… [私の経験では] 新しい環境に慣れるまでに約6ヶ月かかります。」 

“Sometimes it is the ones closest to you and care for you the most who are the ones who give you the most detrimental advice that holds you back.”

「時に、両親や友達等あなたに最も親しい人たちは、あなたを気遣って、行動を妨げるようなアドバイスをしますが、これがあなたにとっての枠になる可能性が高いです。」

“Thinking and imagining about how difficult it will be is probably going to be more difficult and scary than what it is actually like when you are going through it.”
「新しく挑戦することがどれほど難しいかを考えたり想像したりすることより、あなたが実際にそれを経験しているときの方が想像していたより、難しくもなく怖くもないでしょう。」 “We heal ourselves by healing others.”
「私たちは他人を癒すことで自分自身もまた癒されます。」

Destination Unknown Podcast Interview Transcript

“Geographic Transitions: Secrets and Strategies” with Rachel Leng

Linda: Hi welcome back this is Linda Rossetti and I am thrilled you’re here for another episode of Destination Unknown. Today we have an extraordinary guest – a colleague and friend Rachel Leng joins me. Part of her resume has things like entrepreneur, Miss Singapore and a graduate of both Duke University and Harvard University. Rachel, it’s nice to have you here, welcome.

Rachel: Thank you Linda for having me on the show. I still remember when we first met, I believe you were my international host who helped me transition when I first arrived at Harvard about 7 years ago. As a Singaporean who had grown up in various countries around Asia – primarily China in Shanghai – and as a first-generation college student in the US it was really meaningful for me to hear about your experiences and work on transition at that time. Since then I’ve been through several other transitions. After graduating, I pursued a job in policy as I was studying international relations and East Asian Studies and had an interest in politics and public policy. So I went to Seoul, South Korea for that job at a political think tank. I was there for about a year and then I moved to Japan just on my own. I didn’t have anything lined up but I had the idea that I wanted to find a job there and learn more about finance and business development… I ended up landing a job in a private equity firm at which I still currently work. Since last year I co-founded my own company in business consultancy and media production with a mission to share knowledge to benefit others. Because, in my own experience it has been media and communication that has helped me along the way and given me the right advice when I needed it. For example, I should mention your blog because I constantly receive your updates and still manage to receive that inspiration and motivation from you and your work.

If I look back, I think moving to Korea was one of my most difficult transitions thus far when I decided to take the job at the think tank in Seoul. Most people were reacting – “Why would you go to Seoul? Why not stay in the US? You can get a perfectly good job here.” After all, I had other job offers for example in Singapore and Hong Kong, (so people would say) “why wouldn’t you go there seems to be a lot more going on there for young ambitious women.” Korea has been consistently ranked lowest or near the lowest on most OECD rankings for gender equality. I just had this desire to really experience it myself and to understand as much about different countries and cultures as possible… but if I look back now I definitely underestimated how difficult it would be to live and work in a country where you have no knowledge of the language or the culture. When I arrived on the ground, everything from just grocery shopping to renting an apartment was really difficult.

The most challenging thing of all I think I faced was the female Asian culture stereotypes. Something like only 2 percent of women in Korea are actually in leadership roles such as on board of directors of companies and women only earn about 60 percent of what men earn generally. There are very strong stereotypes that women should not pursue a career after having a family or have children… In my experience, sexual harassment at the workplace and in society was very common and even expected or accepted by many so that young women around me often did not even recognize it just because it was so entrenched in the cultural views of gender-defined roles. This was difficult for me to deal with coming from being educated in the U.S. and then going back to Asia and being in that kind of social and corporate environment where I just felt really devalued at that time.

Linda: I wonder if you could talk about extricating yourself from that. You know, what was that decision like to leave that moment because I think my listeners… You know, many of us could find ourselves in situations where we never imagined how they would be and when they’re not supportive of us and we know we need to move. So maybe you could talk a little bit about what that decision was like for you.

Rachel: It was really, really difficult. There were many days when I just felt so stuck and depressed with not much of a future and was getting really listless and resigned. On the surface, people will look at your history or your Instagram account persona and assume that everything worked out so well for you but when you’re really in that moment, there are just many days you wake up and you just have no energy to really fight it anymore. I realized that I was even beginning to internalize it – you just believe that you’re not good enough, that maybe you’re not adding much value to your career.

For me, I think it was a stroke of luck butwhat I did was I started reaching out to other people and seeing how I can help other people. I had this opportunity to work with the Korean government on the mentorship program for Korean youth who were interested in either working abroad or pursuing an education abroad. By working with these young Korean women, coaching them, and kind of helping them and through the process of sharing my experiences and seeing their success in applying to schools and good jobs overseas really helped me also realize the value of my experiences.

By teaching them, I think they taught me so much more in return. So as much as Korea was in some ways a very painful experience for me, it was also really important as a stepping stone to Japan because after going through that I just had more confidence especially after working with so many of my mentees and other students to help them through their transitions to move out of their career that I really decided to jump into my next chapter.

Linda: It’s interesting because you’ve had a number of transitions. I wonder – do you see any similarities as you look at the transitions that you’ve made?

Rachel: Whenever you move to a different country is really easy to feel like a fish out of water and then you start self-isolating as well and feeling really alone… In many ways, we learn after doing it a few times and you become more aware of the sense that you need to break out of this comfort zone and circle that is confining you. It becomes easier every time but it still takes time so you can’t rush it – it still takes about 6 months every time you transition to anything. Moving countries and moving to a new job are usually considered 2 of the most stressful things that you can do in your life and doing them at once is extremely difficult but I think that if you have the right mind-set and of course, thankfully in my situation, I had a lot of mentors who gave me really great advice that really helps pick you up at the times you need it the most.

Linda: I love this model that you’ve put in your head that as you move or make substantial changes there is a behaviour pattern that you relied on – and granted, it wasn’t maybe the most healthy to kind of draw inward and almost constrict your activities a little bit that self-isolation for a little while to get your feet underneath you. And so it’s very interesting because I think all of us have these reflexive behaviours that we turn to particularly at times when we’re facing substantial uncertainty which is really what transition is all about – it’s really walking forward into the unknown. You know in the first couple of weeks when you’re on the ground you are in a new place, how can my listeners prepare themselves for this moment really in terms of how it’s going to feel.

Rachel: So the most difficult step would probably have been getting your feet on the ground in the first place. The reason for that is you’re going to get so many people telling you what to do or not to do. The most painful realization that I came to at some point was that sometimes the people closest to you and care for you the most are the ones that give you the most detrimental advice that holds you back. Your thinking and imagining how difficult it will be it’s probably going to be more difficult and more scary than what it actually is like when you’re going through it.

Linda: Yeah I think so so fantastic advice and I think that that’s been played out so many times on the guests that we’ve had here on Destination Unknown. Many people who do go through transitions talk about surprises. I wonder if you could share a couple of those that maybe you’ve encountered.

Rachel: So you are absolutely right that a lot of times when you go through transition you just feel really down, really broken, and tend to want to just draw into yourself and I guess to protect your inner core in that way and kind of preserve some sense of yourself. One of the challenges I faced and many other people I have worked with do encounter is how to build up that confidence again. Since Korea I have continued working with many students and young professionals coaching and mentoring them. A girl from China reach out to me and that she confided in me her story that she was being abused by her father who was an alcoholic and she felt absolutely no confidence in herself and had no support from her family to pursue an education and in fact was advice or kind of discouraged from it.

Nonetheless, she was still having his curiosity about exploring going to university are learning more about the world. After hearing her story, I really empathized with her situation where somebody’s family and friends are the ones that hold you back in some ways simply by saying that you can’t do it. So, I decided to coach her through the entire application process and she ended up getting into a top university in the US on a full scholarship. I realized that as much as I taught her and shared with her, she’s taught me so much more in return. This kind of confirmed that the place of my own existence and my values that I had doubted at many times. We heal ourselves by healing others.

Linda: I think that’s a beautiful sentiment Rachel, and I think that I’ve seen that replicated time and again for people who navigate transition that the gifts that we’re willing to extend to others come back to us tenfold and it is really quite powerful that your willingness to question what was around you and the opportunities that you had in front of you – that willingness to keep asking the question has clearly paid off for you. I am so honored to know you and to watch how you’ve grown and developed – you’ve done such an outstanding job and I can just imagine all the wonderful things are about to give to the world so I thank you for joining me and for being my guest and for your friendship. Thank you so much.

Rachel: Thank you so much.

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